Ever wondered why I am crazy?

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    Ever wondered why I am crazy?

    Post by quater

    So! If you've known me long enough you've probably seen me comment a long ramble post to some minor comment. And you may of been wondering, "Q, why do you care so much?"


    Good question! Afterall, your average person doesn't get offended by a movie's message, or a slight here and there, or the occasional rock band. Speaking of rock bands, that's actually what this post is really all about.
    You see, all this time I thought I was a loner in seeing these controversial opinions, but I was reading a book recently, Why The Left Hates America, and the author had some things to say, too:

    Another group of Chomsky disciples, Rage Against The Machine, has sold millions of albums 'raging' against the country that made them rich. Like the corporate schlock they purport to despise, the rap/metal group maintains a cookie-cutter approach to producing hits: predictable, politically charged lyrics set to tunes that evoke a feeling of deja vu for listeners wondering whether what they are hearing is the band's last single. By shrewdly clothing their off-putting message in beats and rhythms congenial to the ears of youth, the political activists masquerading as musicians assure that their idiosyncratic views receive a hearing amongst an audience that normally wouldn't pay them any attention. With an upside-down flag gracing an amplifier, Rage Against the Machine fans mosh to such numbers as "CIA (Criminals in Action)" and "Take the Power Back," which waxes poetic, "Bam! Here's the plan/Motherfuck Uncle Sam."

    In fiction, where any theory or characterization, no matter how absurd, can be made to work, readers, listeners, and viewers are conditioned to believe what they see or hear. With enough repetition, the creator's imagination is often processed as reality. This is why so many ideologues flock to the arts. In their netherworld, even the most outlandish ideas can appear to make sense.

    ...The makers of anti-American propaganda films and the millionaire musicians who rail against our capitalist system deserve our scorn, not our dollars

    And there you have the quote from Daniel Flynn (P 88-89). And you may be wondering, "Why did Q post all this?"

    Well, for starters, I've mentioned before certain bands and musicians have political tastes that I dislike and gotten scorn for it. I wanted to explain a bit why these positions bug me. To put it simply, I don't really like listening to people rail against America or chat about politics when I disagree with them on every point, nay?

    And you may think, "But Q! They the freedom of speech to do so!" and you'd be completely right. But freedom of speech has consequences. They can make songs that attack America, and the consequence is I will refuse to support their music with my money or listening to them and I will denounce them. That is my freedom of speech, to dislike their music if I want. And to comment on how I dislike it.

    Notice also the other reason I refuse to support it. See, it wouldn't be so bad if they were just making music and they were stating their opinions. But this part underlines why there is more to it than that: By shrewdly clothing their off-putting message in beats and rhythms congenial to the ears of youth, the political activists masquerading as musicians assure that their idiosyncratic views receive a hearing amongst an audience that normally wouldn't pay them any attention....With enough repetition, the creator's imagination is often processed as reality.

    That is the real reason I have to say something. You guys buy into their songs! You completely and wholefully buy into their messages and believe what they are saying, based on almost little to no evidence. Proof? I've argued with most of you and many of you yourselves said you know little about politics. So why are you picking up views by bands like "rage against the machine" and "rise against" when you yourself admit you don't know much? Because these messages are being pushed into your brains. I refuse to listen to it because I know too much and it offends me, usually. But because you know so little about politics these lyrics make actual sense to you.

    "Condescending much, Q?" Well, maybe I am. But if you wanted to know why I make a big deal about explaining the hidden messages in movies and songs, this is why. Because if I don't, and no one challenges the reasoning behind these movies, who's there to tell you that the movie isn't true? Who's there to fend off the propaganda? If I leave it up to you, then how many of you will continue to believe in falsities? Heck, even I often find myself having to do fact checks. So what makes you, who has 0 interest in most politics and does little research, believe you'll be immune to the messages? And I now have proof I'm not the only one who sees this as prevalent. Scholarly figures have picked up on it.

    On the one hand, I feel like actors, musicians, and movies should just leave the politics to someone else. Afterall, do you go to a teacher and ask her to do your taxes? Do you go to a fireman and ask him how to measure a yard for cement pouring? Do you go to a doctor's office and ask him the best way to put out a fire? No. Why? Because these are not their jobs, their area of expertises. An actors area of expertise is acting. A musician makes good music. A movie should tell an epic tale. And in none of these situations are these people experienced to make much comment on society.

    Put another way, do I, Q, a lover of politics feel I have expertise on acting and go to their sets and speak out about how they should act? Do I go up to their concerts and start yelling about how they do not play the guitar correctly? Absolutely not. I know I don't know what I'm talking about so I avoid it.

    So what makes them think their opinions are just such gold that they can comment on an area of expertise foreign to them? And yet, I understand that their going to do it anyway because it's about 'expression' and what not. And since we have a society where these people are going to make calls on politics and most people will listen to them, someone has to combat what lies and deceptions and sometimes stupidity they are putting out.

    And I'll do that job just fine, thanks.

    Note: I encourage anyone and everyone to get involved in politics, but I wish they'd keep it separate from their professional lives. Just like I'd find it rude if I went to a business and they refused to give food to Democrats, I find it rude that musicians feel the need to attack our soldiers and southerners in their music (or what have you). That doesn't mean I think these people, or any people, should be excluded from politics at all. But that they should keep it separate from their professional jobs and not act like their opinion is better than the average person's. And when they do have to incorporate it into their jobs, let's try being respectful about it. Not "They took off his clothes, they pissed in his hands, I told them to stop but then I joined in," [Rise Against referring to soldiers in the song 'Hero of War'] or "I am ashamed of my country" [Michelle Obama I mean, Dixie Chicks. (Isn't it sad that I can put Michelle Obama and it's totally believable?)] Etc. Also, I specifically picked out this guy's target on Rage Against the Machine because I've seen many of you quote songs from them, listen to them, comment on them, etc so I figured it'd be relevant to you.
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 12:35 by Banouin

    I hate you. Rawr rawr rawr.
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 15:31 by CLAIRVOYANTdisease

    Musicians like to sing about the topics that they feel are important to them, and if bands such as RATM want to write songs and sing about these topics to get the message out, I don't get the problem.

    I'm a fan of bands like Rage Against The Machine, Rise Against and Anti-Flag who are known for writing a lot of political songs, so what I know nothing of American politics? I enjoy the songs. It doesn't mean I'm going to immediately agree with their stance, cause if I like it I will listen to it!

    Its the same principle for actors/actresses/etc who give an opinion on religion or politics too.

    Just because Tom Cruise is into Scientology and I love Tom Cruise, it doesn't mean I'm going to immediately take his stance and give up Christianity just for him! I will accept his stance and way of thinking, develop my own feeling about it, much like you have done with politics in music, and I will carry on believing what I chose to believe.


    If I wanted to gain a stance on American politics, sad to say it, but music is not the first place I would go to in order to learn about it.


    But there are many people who do feel like music gives their opinion on politics, cause many people don't have the same views as you, and a lot of people like the fact that musicians can give this message in their songs.

    I would say that RATM give an older insight into politics compared to newer bands like Rise Against and Anti-Flag though, so they will each have slightly different stances or motives for their lyrics, but I know plenty of people who are fans of all three of those bands, like me!

    Am I about to go into the world and start chanting their lyrics? ...Well okay, I do shove some in my AIM/MSN messages from time to time, or as a facebook status or two, but never further than that!

    Apart from the lyrics in Rage Against The Machine - 'Killing In The Name Of' which was intended to be a political song, but the message was taken out of its political context and taken by certain people as a different message, like when we in the UK got it to number 1 for Christmas, stating a positive message about how we wont be lead into buying into the X-Factor which brings out unoriginal, cookie cutter, mainstream talent every year, and that certain bands deserve more recognition.

    What I mean by that is that the lyrics don't have to be solely political to everyone, if there is SOME way someone out there can get a different, positive message out of the songs, then I think there is no harm in them.


    Plus, I don't see any of these bands attempting to run for President any time soon, and if they tried they may not get too far, even with the support of the masses that listen to them constantly.
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 19:24 by quater

    Um, what are you trying to say, Clair?

    From that post I got this: I really like those bands and they can sing about politics if they want to.


    Kay? I didn't say you had to dislike the bands or that they couldn't.

    I said: 1) People buy into those songs and lyrics without thinking through what they're believing in. And they do. That's not really up for debate, regardless if you think you don't. 2) Actors, actresses, musicians have really little knowledge about religion and politics. And they don't. That's also not really up for debate, because as I pointed out it's not their area of expertise.

    I also pointed out that they easily get messages that have no accuracy to people who listen to them and buy into them. Such as American soldiers peeing on bodies in Iraq, or as you rightly pointed out that atrocious song, "Killing in the name of" which repeats over and over, "And now you do what they told you" for like, half the song. So original~

    And I didn't say if you liked their music, which I knew you specifically would take offense to this Clair, that you were wrong. I just said be aware that they are stuffing politics down your throat and you will be unlikely to defend your beliefs against them. And I stand by that. Tom Cruise stating he is a scientologist is pretty different from repeating songs with political messages over and over and over and over into your head. If I made an amazing song and it was called "Down with Democrats" and you listened to it constantly from the radio to the Ipod there's little support that my beliefs wouldn't get to you. If you think they won't, you're fooling yourself. I'm no different, we all are easily susceptible to that kinda stuff. It's not an insult, just a fact of humans. So don't take it offensively.

    Just because you like the bands, doesn't mean that I didn't make an accurate criticism of their politics. Just because I think they are stuffing politics down your throat, and they are, doesn't mean I think they should be silenced or anything. I think YOU guys should educate yourself so you're not so easily manipulated.

    Is that so bad? Afterall, you wouldn't want to "Do what they told you" right?
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 19:48 by CLAIRVOYANTdisease

    Yep, my point was that though the songs are mostly political they have other messages within them, like "Killing In The Name Of"~

    My points really weren't that hard to get if you read through them. Since my English is really dumbed down anyway.

    I'm not stupid, Q. I know they're stuffing politics into their songs... everyone knows they're stuffing politics into the songs... o_O?

    Bands have been doing it for years. I've listened to RATM since I was 13, and the others from a young age, and I listen to the songs repeatedly and I have not had the "beliefs get to me" as you suggest, nor am I fooling myself, especially since I don't have a stance in politics at all.

    You can criticise their politics, and I'm sure they would criticise yours too.


    Its kinda laughable that you think people that listen to the bands are easily manipulated... when really the majority of people with an ounce of sense that listen to those bands are not being manipulated into believing everything they hear, or what the bands message is.

    Oh, yes. Cause the song "now you do what they told you" can only have one meaning and that's politics.
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 19:54 by quater

    I would agree with your message, Clair, if it weren't for the fact that I have argued with most everyone on the site about some political message, and most have the same beliefs as these bands and yet when we start getting down to the bolts and nuts of what those beliefs are they cop out "I don't know much."

    These beliefs are coming from somewhere. If you think listening to these songs all the time without understanding the political message and taking into account what is true and isn't is harmless, then who are you fooling?


    Why does it bug you so much Clair that I say that listening to tons of wrong political beliefs can lead you to thinking that way? Aren't counter culture people supposed to believe that the 'masses' are being manipulated anyway? Or can they only be manipulated by other things, not music?

    The fact of the matter is, Clair, I'm explaining my beliefs here using quotes from a book from someone who came to the same conclusion as me. We're not saying that you are hurting yourself, just that if you don't think about what's going into your head that you'll come out believing that way.

    And most people don't think about it. Quit kidding yourself~ And I quoted that song because I said don't do what the band told you, either? Why are you defending them? I haven't attacked their music, just the ideology. I'm free to do that, no? And yet you seem positively perturbed by even the slightest inkling of an idea that you could of possibly picked up their beliefs in any way. Despite the fact that music has been able to push political messages on people as far back as 'imagine'.
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 20:02 by CLAIRVOYANTdisease

    I'm not kidding myself.

    These bands have varying political messages depending on which band it is anyway, considering some songs are older than others etc.

    If there was a band that held the exact same political stance as you, you would praise them and try to get them out there.

    Just like people do with other bands cause its like "ZOMG THEY'RE CHRISTIAN ROCK."

    But at the end of the day its up to the person whether they want to believe in the message in the song. I don't believe in this "brainwashing" thing you're saying, cause if that were true, Disney would have taken over the world LONG ago, especially with the amount of girls that love the Jonas Brothers, or Twilight with the fangirls.

    The people you are talking about that took on a certain political stance without really truely understanding it probably did take this on because of the band/song that sang about it, but the band did not force them to, it was their decision in the end, free will blahdeblahdeblahblah.
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 20:05 by CLAIRVOYANTdisease

    quater wrote: And I quoted that song because I said don't do what the band told you, either? Why are you defending them? I haven't attacked their music, just the ideology. I'm free to do that, no? And yet you seem positively perturbed by even the slightest inkling of an idea that you could of possibly picked up their beliefs in any way. Despite the fact that music has been able to push political messages on people as far back as 'imagine'.

    You added this in later.

    I'm just saying that you need to understand songs can have more than one meaning, so I'm defending them by saying their songs have more than one meaning as I explained in my first post.

    I'm not "positively perturbed" in any way that I've picked up a political message from their songs, cause I don't believe in it... I could probably tell you their stance, but then I'd be scared to incase you thought I believed it for knowing it.


    I don't care if you hate them or don't listen to them cause of the political songs, I'm just sayin', listening to them wont suddenly make you change your beliefs... plus I like dancing to some of those songs!
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 20:11 by quater

    I think bands should make music, not politics. Even most country music that praises my candidates I still feel they are unqualified to make those assumptions~


    I like Christian rock, but I'm pretty picky about what songs I'll take from them. But there's little doubt when you listen to Christian rock you're gonna get a message about God. ^^ And I'd be lying to myself if Christian rockers didn't help shape my view of God and Christianity. They did. A lot.

    Twilight and Jonas Brothers are hardly pushing political messages~ Jonas Brothers pushes music, although most people would be hesitant to call it that. And Zac Efron did comment on the War in Iraq in a long rant of his, and guess what? A lot of tweenage girls totally like, bought into it.

    Well Clair, maybe you're just an amazingly special case, eh? Maybe I was referring to the rest of the world, but you are the exception to the rule? Maybe when I made this Blog I was thinking about the rest of the world, susceptible to Propaganda, not you?

    Who knows? I just know that a lot of people believe this stuff wholeheartedly and don't think twice about what they are listening to and let it shape their beliefs. And I also knew you'd get upset about that, for whatever reason. But I guess you are the rare person who is not shaped by music in their lives~ Still, most people are susceptible to this, and you should understand it is them I am looking out for, not a propaganda immune person such as yourself.

    Edit: Yes, I did edit that in later cause I felt like adding it. Yes, their songs can have more than one meaning? But you can't ignore the fact they can also have political meanings? But like I said, this is for the politically susceptible, not yourself Clairy. Worry not~ This is for other people.

    And yes, you do like dancing to the songs. Personally, I think most of your dislike of my blog has to do with the fact I am commenting on bands YOU like. Very little to do with the idea that people can be convinced to believe a certain way through music. If this blog had been against Christian Music, you'd be less likely to vehemently oppose it so much since you don't dance to that music, eh?

    Take away your personal feelings for the bands and you might realize my point is relatively harmless to the bands~ I just want people to think for themselves and be careful when listening to politically empowered music.
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 20:17 by CLAIRVOYANTdisease

    *rolls eyes* Yes Q, cause at their concerts they're training everyone up to go and vote for whoever they want to win. I must be the only person in the world who doesn't believe in it ! But its cool, cause I don't care :D
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 21:07 by quater

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/2776214/
    http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/09/30/bruce-springsteen-billy-joel-to-play-nyc-obama-benefit-concert/
    http://idolator.com/5070392/jimmy-buffett-to-swing-floridas-vote-with-nothing-but-an-acoustic-guitar-and-a-handle-of-rum
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7835965.stm
    http://www.michigandaily.com/content/2008-10-09/concerts-obama
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/robert-knight/2008/05/20/free-concert-popular-band-preceded-obama-s-big-rally
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0147632420080202
    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/




    Actually, yes ^ (not that politicians have never used bands before, but this is rare that bands willingly play for registration to vote drives....for Republicans.)
    Not saying bands can't support a candidate or ask people to register to vote, or do both! But don't act like I'm crazy to think that bands are being used as political tools.

    President Obama often had big registration to vote drives that would open with big concerts.

    But don't worry about it. You somehow managed to listen to it for 5 years and never let it effect how you think. Like I said, this is for others who are susceptible. You're not, so don't worry. You're just a special case, but you're not the par. ^_^

    Just saying, politics and music goes together a lot~ Just think about what you're listening to?
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 21:21 by Little_Shiro

    HEY STOP MAKING LONG PoSTS IM TOO laZY TO REad thEM!!1
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    Post on Wed Feb 24 2010, 21:30 by quater

    Sum it up!
    Q: Music can be ebil!
    Clair: But the music is good!
    Q: But yo have to watch out for ebil!
    Clair: But it's so fun to dance to!
    Q: Okay, dance, but think!
    Clair: Okie dokie I don't care anyway~

    Something like that ^
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    Post on Sat Apr 10 2010, 14:03 by Mikel

    *laughs*

    but i've learned that too, q. that's true. no denying it. after all, music is repetitive. even if one says, i don't listen to the lyrics, just the rhythm and the beat, subconsciously the mind gets the lyrics. repetition does that.

    besides, most of who's affected to that is the masses. the educated may be a little hard to penetrate but the masses are easy to accept crap. music is easily accessible. if it's the only source of what they could know, it'll be easy for them to accept it as true.
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    Post on Tue Jul 06 2010, 15:39 by Zergio

    *tilts head* That was a real thought jerker, and I just remembered that I don't remember 3/4ths of the music I listen to. *tilts head more* I don't even remember if I listened to songs with anything to do with politics. Im not saying im not affected, but....... *falls over from the tilting* I just don't remember a thing ._.

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