Occultism and Music~

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    UreshiiQ
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    Occultism and Music~

    Post by UreshiiQ

    GRAH. Yes, this is sort of a mini rant, but I wanna know what you think, as well.~

    First off, if I think I don't understand a song, I google the meaning. And that's why I'm writing this. I just wanted the meaning to Lady Gaga's Bad Romance~
    Instead I ended up reading this long article about how the video was 'symbolic', and 'anti-Christian'.

    Of course these subjects interest me, but really, to me, it's a load of bull. Their trying to imply all singers, especially in the music business work for the devil. I think it was just Lady Gaga being creative with her work.

    Now it may be true, the video implies her being sold as a sex slave, but is it occultist, and anti-Christian? I thought not. Now of course, I'll credit them, that there are a few( one ) anti-Christian things I've spotted. Like on her album cover, the t in 'Fame Monster' looks sort of like the symbol for satanists~ But, I sorta have a theory for that. In the video, at the begining, they're in these sensory deprivation coffins. The on that Lady Gaga is in, has the word 'Monster', and under it the 'T' from the cover~
    Probably because they thought she was satanic? The world may never now :/

    There was also a scene, with dloating diamonds around here, where she was wearing a cross, but the cross was hanging over her panties. I didn't see anything wrong, with that. Lots of crosses are to big, and I'm sure it really wasn't meant to be that way.

    Other things are the white turning to red, along with 'strategically' placed 'symbols of occultism'.

    So what do you think? I really think they're full of it.

    P.S. The song is really about being in love with your best friend.
    P.P.S My friend has a pimple in her nose >:]
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    Post on Sun Jan 03 2010, 08:30 by CLAIRVOYANTdisease

    I hate when people just assume music is anti-christian or to do with the occult, even if it was if I enjoyed listening to it, it wouldn't stop me listening to it... unless it was actually specifically about going to worship the occult or something .... that I wouldn't listen to.. ._.
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    Post on Sun Jan 03 2010, 08:32 by UreshiiQ

    Me either~
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    Post on Sun Jan 03 2010, 16:21 by quater

    True, but people often go the other way, too. They like it so they ignore criticism, even when it's well founded. I can point out flaws in many great movies and songs and people will ignore them and attack me, instead of accepting that their may be less than Benevolent ideas behind the film, song, story they're talking about.

    As for Lady Gaga, she's a bit of a freak anyway. I watched the video you were talking about, and I didn't like it cause the song wasn't really that good to me. The video itself was just bleh on top of the bad song, if you ask me.

    Although you might not like it, symbols are usually not accidental. If their is anti-Christian symbolism in a video, it's usually not their by mistake. But at the same time whether Lady Gaga's intent was to be anti-Christian or controversial, since her popularity breathes mostly off her controversy, is to be seen.

    But there is a lot of Occultism in popular music nowadays. Not that I think the entire Music industry is working for the Devil, but you can't say that all music nowadays is clean or that there aren't a lot of anti-Christian songs out there. (I know my radio station blares a few of them at me from time to time.)

    Instead of getting mad, let it go. :P There are also crazies out there. For example, the crazy who made a blog explaining how Santa Claus is really the devil. Made good points, but it's still really crazy from what I see. You just gotta look at it and decide for yourself whether there is validity in it. Don't rush to defend it just because you like it, but then decide if the validity is worth disowning it to you.
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    Post on Wed Jan 06 2010, 15:05 by neon kun

    XDD wow. to Qlala's point. makes a lot of sense! XD

    i honestly don't know if lady gaga's that or whatever people claim her to be. XD i personally don't really care since i don't really listen to her. XD
    for me, music is music, just that XD whatever strings they may attach it to it. i just want to enjoy music XD without being bothered by what people say
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    Post on Wed Jan 06 2010, 16:39 by quater

    Thanks, Neons!
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    Post on Tue Jan 12 2010, 02:47 by Lunami

    (Do realize, that anything posted in here may not conform to your beliefs. Do not take offense to this. Just because you believe it not to be true, they can very well believe what they wish as well)
    Currently, at least under LaVeyan Satanism, the current standing symbol to the Church of Satan, is an inverted pentagram, with a goat placed, the two horns, here;

    Spoiler:

    However, people fail to realize, mostly because they are just simply to ignorant to learn, nor care, that LaVeyan Satanism, does not worship Satan. The name used is merely a statement used in the mid 1900's to oppose Christianity. Just that these days. it's not caught on anymore.

    Typically, there are several major types of Satanists.These can be covered here

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071230172008AAq0d3H - overall view

    http://churchofsatan.com/ -LaVeyan

    http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/TRADITIONAL.html - Spiritual

    Also, do realize, that a lot of people do not find Lucifer to be against YHVH, rather, they see him as against humanity, to more or less convince humans in the existance of YHVH. His role in Jewish lore is the Adversary of Man, not of YHVH.

    As for Anti-Christian in relation to sex-slave, do realize, that it's been mentioned in the bible, that one is able to sell their daughter in times of need.

    Spoiler:
    "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the
    end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who
    bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not
    allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the
    contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to
    marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must
    treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes
    another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep
    with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may
    leave as a free woman without making any payment."
    (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


    Where someone wears their religious item wherever they may wish. The bible has no set regulation on it, so it's truly up them. Either way, when's the last time you've seen someone wear a fish symbol?

    Also, the occult isn't about devil worshiping or anything of the sort. The fact remains, that occult comes from the word occultus, which is used to describe things that are "knowledge of the hidden." In a more modern sense, this is used to relate to things such as ancient sciences, such as alchemy, astrology, etc... and things such as magick, psionics, and this also includes a multitude of religions that no longer exist. Occult has nothing to do at all, with something in specific.

    Lastly, for now anyways, symbols are just that. They represent something to different people. If you show a swastika to an Native American, and a Jew, they will have very different views on it. It is an image, that strikes a very personal emotion, memory, or feeling. The main difference with symbols however, is that they generally spark these things, with a large group of people.

    For example, take the Pentacle

    Spoiler:

    No, this is not a pentagram. A pentacle is a pentagram inside of the sacred circle. Anyways, many people, will look at this image, and immediately come to "Satanist". This doesn't make it true, but it is what comes to mind. However, many people who deal with Pagans, are Pagan, or generally deal with occult matters (Pagan, in this case, refers to anyone who does not follow the Judeo-Christian and Islamic faiths.) will see this as a symbol, representing the 5 great elements of Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water, in union with Spirit.

    (Random fact, when the pentacle/pentagram is "satanic" there will be a point facing down, and when it's not, there will be a single point facing up. The reason this is what changes a pentagram from 'good" to "evil" is that the spirit, in the image of the Pentagram, the top most point, represents spirit. However, when seen inverted, or one point down, this represents Spirit being down.)

    Now, here I'll agree with Q. A lot of music videos will relate a lot to the occult. The only problem is, a lot of people have mixed up ideas about what the occult is. Most people see "cult" in there, and think it's bad, when it's actually not. Every major faith started as a cult. A cult is nothing more than a religious group that isn't exactly mainstream. Yes, there are bad ones out there, but it doesn't mean they all are. The music industry likes to use various symbols in the videos, to spark something into the watcher, to get them involved in the video, to make them want to see it again, and again.

    And again, I'll agree with Q, there is no point in obsessing over it. People will think what they want. Personally, I hold nothing against her music, but what a lot of people need to do, is dis-associate how the artist lives, and their art, and the people who make the video. Most music videos, the only thing the artist has to do in it, is act.

    ~~~~
    I made a quick edit, I meant to say "Spiritual" not "Traditional" on that third link.


    Last edited by Lunami on Tue Jan 12 2010, 20:06; edited 1 time in total
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    Post on Tue Jan 12 2010, 18:47 by UreshiiQ

    Wow, that was...really good~ I didn't even know most of the stuff, before. I actually really didn't get the whole idea of occultism ^_^ Thanks, Lunami, this helped a lot!~
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    Post on Tue Jan 12 2010, 20:11 by quater

    Exodus is Israelite, not Christian. That's a clarification I'd make. The rules in Exodus were abolish with Christ, though they still are worth noting. Also, as the story of Joseph and the Coat of dreams shows, the people who sell people into slavery are not the good guys.


    All I have to say about that long post Lunami is I could say the same thing about the Nazi Sign proving it started out as a good thing. But would anyone object to the Nazi sign being displayed? They better. Context is important. If I make a video full of Occult signs and Satanistic symbols (I get it, you don't worship Satan. Why does every person who's heard of Satanism feel the need to say that over and over?) I may be meaning the ancient symbolism behind it. But much more likely, I mean the current theme of it. Which often is anti-church, God, and whatnot.

    Take the hippy sign as the perfect antithesis, as well. Right now it's currently used as Peace, love, and friendship! And anti-war. But originally the peace sign, going back to Roman times is an upside down Cross that they used to hang Christians on. Does that mean the peace sign is anti-Christian as well? If someone has a peace sign T-Shirt they want to kill Christians on a cross? Noooo. Because the Peace sign has a context of peace now, not killing Christians.

    The same goes for Satanic symbols. Sure, they may stand for something different originally. But regardless, they have an accepted mainstream implication as well and when you're making a video like that, it has to be taken into account that they may mean the Mainstream one and not the original. At least I hope all those peace sign videos mean peace and not kill the Christians on crosses upside down.

    That's all I have to say. I have a headache and didn't really read the rest of what you said. As I already said in my post, I didn't much like the video.

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